hades_wench

так денег жалко не потому, что дорого само по себе, а потому что в последних версиях ни арта, ни оформления, а про неинформативность сюжетов сразу была оговорка - мол, чтобы никто из фанатов не оказался в привилегированном положении по информации, так что книги будут ни о чем. так что эксклюзив только на ближайшие 1,5-2 года, а потом все равно все станет массовым и доступным. но если будет еще по ЖВ или, скажем, по ДИ, все равно куплю :hypocrite:

помня о традиции перевода А. Поупа, "Всегда туда кидается дурак, Где ангел не решится сделать шаг". п.с. это не пословица, это Опыт о критике.

i Уведомление: теперь для метания упреков и дифирамбов в ортодоксальности будет такая общая тема. про "умеет-не умеет писать" - сюда. ЕТА: т.к. изменилась направленность темы, проводим второй раунд опроса. напоминаю, что в первый раз с т.зр. личных симпатий "лучший/худший" одновременно победил и проиграл Д. Абнетт.

на 4-й странице тема скатывает в то, во что и должно, - плохой/хороший автор, книга написана хорошо/плохо. при этом критериев кроме "мне (не) нравится" так и не появилось, а про длинные достоинства писателей у нас уже есть тема. так что или давайте конкретнее про логические нестыковки именно в пределах серий БЛ, или тема пойдет под нож как флуд.

навскидку - Pawns of Chaos, Farseer.

во-первых, цитата, на которую модно стало забивать: Все, что написано в книгах от издательства Black Library - есть официальный бэкграунд соотвествующей вселенной во-вторых, тема вообще пока ни о чем. давайте уж тогда поносить косяки авторов именно в книгах БЛ, включая и нестыковки относительно друг друга - а не кодексов, потому что логика кодексов - это вам вообще в другой раздел.

i Уведомление: товарищи! флуд, оффтоп и "это анбэк" - верный способ добиться, чтобы у модераторов встало все недоброе. это прежде всего превентивно авторам последних 4-х сообщений, чтобы дискуссия не ушла, куда не надо.

с Sapphon'ом проблема в том, что он даже в той книге Томсона на гугле встречается только 1 раз на фоне Sapphan (ср. в Kings IV, 22:12), хотя это один и тот же человек. больше именно этой формы вообще нигде нет, так что, скорее всего, даже в пределах той книги это только опечатка. колебания с Sa(p)phan вызваны версиями передачи с греческого, как это было в разных версиях ВЗ, см. тут. частотные соотношения вариантов Ш/С см. на байблтулз, там в английских текстах видна закономерность: Ш - в версиях на основе др.-евр., С - из греческого и/или латыни. в Тексте-70 он Σαφαν, откуда и взялось русское «Сафан», но т.к. идефиксом Синодального перевода было выковать именно перевод с др.евр. текста как очищенный от посредников, то (если бы с этими планами не получилось как всегда) вернее будет Шафан. поэтому же он у новых переводов РБО, кот-ые тоже ориентируются на др.-евр. так что если следовать духу традиции, то только вариант с Ш. а вот хз, потому что мне теперь начинает казаться, что это вообще не тот подозреваемый. потому что есть еще Баал-Сафон.

еще кусок из блога Торпа: "и кто это у нас тут нашелся?" примечание автора: Note that this is from my draft, some small details may be tweaked in the final edited version (and any typos hopefully removed). There was almost no light at all. Something glittered through a crack in the rocks, providing just enough of a glow for him to make out the outline of the objects around him. There was something half-buried in the rubble behind the boy, cracked and distorted by an immense impact, shattered glass spread across the uneven floor. The light glinted from one thousand and eighty-six shards. He wondered if that was important, and decided it wasn’t. What was important was that the air was breathable, well within tolerable limits, and the gravity a little less than… Less than what? What did ‘Earth-normal’ mean? His thoughts were still scattered. He understood gravity, and if asked could have written out many long equations regarding the calculation of its strength and effect, but it was just one fragment of information tossed haphazardly across his mind, like the shining glass pieces strewn over the floor. There was quite a lot of nitrogen in the air. How did he know that? He took another deep breath, and came to the same conclusion. He just knew it to be true, just as he also detected a higher concentration of carbon dioxide. Both of these facts hovered in his thoughts, before a connection was made and a conclusion surfaced. An artificial atmosphere. It was by no means a definitive conclusion, but seemed a safe assumption given the other environmental factors his body had been steadily assessing in the few moments since he had awoken in this dark place. There was definitely a generator close by; he could sense the electromagnetic disturbance emitted from its coils. The source of the light strobed at a particular frequency that resonated with the generator coils. That was how he knew the light was electrically generated, which was confirmed by his analysis of the spectrum of light falling onto his enhanced retinas. It was very disturbing. He had no memory of this place at all. In fact, all he could recollect was soft warmth, some muffled background whirrs and clicks, and a dull light permeating a layer of liquid. Not at all like this cold, dry, black place. And some voices; disturbing, demented voices that hovered on the edge of memory. He could not recall what they had said, but was left with an uneasy feeling of defiance and distrust. Air moisture was also quite high. Combined with the low temperature, he was forced to conclude that he was close to ice of some kind. He noticed his breath formed vaporous tendrils against the flickering gleam. He remembered his ears, surprised that he had not paid attention to them sooner. There were sounds nearby; sounds that did not seem artificial in origin; sounds that reminded him of occasional visitations while he had been growing and learning. Human sounds. Voices. He could understand the concept of language. He knew seven-thousand six-hundred and forty-one languages, dialects, argots and cants from across the Old Empire. He was not sure how he knew them, and was trying work out into which of them the words he heard could be categorised. There was something of a Pan-Sannamic lilt to the words, but their expression was harshly pronounced. He could not identify the particular sub-strand of the idiom, but it was not so great that he could not form a cognitive appreciation. In short, he decided what they were speaking and listened in. “Near four hundred dead, at least.” “Four hundred less mouths to feed,” said another voice. “Least, that’s the way they’ll see it.” “These arc-drills are not meant for icework,” said another. “This was bound to happen.” “Quit gossiping and start digging!” This was spat, filled with false authority. He could hear the trembling beneath the vehemence, the edge of fear that lurked in the speaker’s subconscious. There came a high-pitched whining, and a flickering red light shone through the tiny gap while the rock started to vibrate fractionally more. He waited, apprehensive but intrigued. The laser drill – of some design of which he was not certain – crept closer and closer. Rock splintered and the light flooded in as the chamber was breached. He took in the scene in an instant. A crowd of humans dressed in shabby blue overalls, seven male and three female, were directing the laser, five of them steering its head, another five on the tracked cart behind. Their age was indeterminate, obliterated by obvious signs of malnourishment and hard labour. Creased, leathery skin, cracked lips, sunken eyes gave them all an aged appearance that was probably beyond their chronological existence. There was also a child with them. A female infant, clinging to the leg of one of the women riding on the traction cart that propelled the drillhead. She had long blonde hair and a narrow face with large lips and bright blue eyes. She seemed very thin, as fragile as an icicle. She was covered in rock dust like all of the others, but had smeared it away from her forehead with a wipe of her hand, revealing skin that was unhealthily pale. Every one of them had ceased working and was now staring at him. He swiftly concluded that they had not intended to find him, and he wondered why his presence here was a surprise. It was another vexing question. “What’s stopping you?” Another male, bigger built and better fed than the others, stepped from behind the mining cart. He wore trousers and jacket of dark blue, covered with a film of dust. His feet were booted, the thick footwear capped with metal at toe and heel. His face was concealed behind the tinted visor of a helmet, and in his hand he carried a whip whose handle was heavy enough to serve as a cudgel. The man stopped in his tracks as he also saw what was in the pocket chamber that had been breached. “How the…?” The adults, the ones in the coveralls with the tools, started jabbering amongst themselves, almost too fast for him to understand. The one with the whip, the one with the false authority in his voice, pushed to the front. The small girl had dropped down from the cart and was walking through the breach into the chamber. “Get back,” said the uniformed man, snatching hold of the girl’s hair to drag her from the gap. He decided he did not like the man with the whip. The girl’s shriek was full of pain and fear, cutting through his thoughts, like a hot knife touching a nerve. He stood up and walked towards the group. They backed away from him, still whispering and muttering in fear. The man who had hurt the girl stood his ground, pushing the infant aside. The man lunged forward to grab him, but he moved so slowly it was easy to avoid the outstretching hand. The boy nimbly stepped around the flailing grasp of the guard and grabbed the wrist in both hands. It snapped easily, bringing a howl of pain from the man. The bullying man reared up as his shattered hand flopped loosely at the end of his arm, bringing back the whip in the other. The barbed tip of the lash cracked forward, but it was a simple enough matter to elude it and snatch up the end of the whip in his fist. The man laughed, partly in hysteria, and yanked, trying to unbalance him. The boy spread his legs and held firm, jarring the guard’s arm, before pulling back. Rather than release his grip, the guard was hauled from his feet, landing face first in the dust and rocks in front of the others. Pacing forward, the boy saw the look of surprise, terror and hope in the eyes of the workers. The little girl smiled at him, even as tears streaked the grime on her face. He wanted to make her happy, to give her something as a sign that everything would be alright. “What’s your name?” she asked. “Mine is Nasturi. Nasturi Ephrenia.” He grabbed the helmeted head of the guard, twisted and gave a pull, ripping it free. He offered it up to the girl, who laughed even as the adults started to cry out in panic. He saw himself reflected in the visor and realised the reason for the alarm he had caused. He was nude, and clothed in the body of a child, no older than Ephrenia. Blood was spattered across his snow-white skin, his crimson-splashed face framed with a shock of coal-black hair. His eyes were utterly black, darker than night. He searched for an answer to the girl’s question, as blood dribbled down his naked arms. Only one reply seemed appropriate, drawn up from the depths of embryonic memory. “Nineteen,” he said. “I am number nineteen.”

2Coadjutor Avrelian попросила Ская перенести это в тему со словарем :rolleyes: 2Дядюшка вводишь в гугле "Синодальный перевод" и "Шафан" и получаешь сотни их. почему это будут одни и те же переводы - см. мой пост выше. нет и не может быть. мда. вот Синодальный перевод того куска, где ты нашел Sapphon'a: 4Цар. 25:22 - сын Шафанов.

И сказал Хелкия первосвященник Шафану писцу: книгу закона я нашел в доме Господнем. И подал Хелкия книгу Шафану, и он читал ее. и тот кусок, что ты цитируешь, в переводе с иврита. почему так получилось, можно выяснить из истории Синодального перевода и почему такие места в нем корректируют оговорками в словарях/комментариях из-за отхода от масоретского текста. кстати, Sapphon встречается только в той версии Томсоновского перевода на гуглькнигах, в других сканах его же - Sapphan, так что правильнее всего было бы в переводе делать примечание, что от библ. Шафан (вар. Сафан). а все потому, что метод поверхностный.

это лучше не сюда, а в Гильдию переводчиков.

Аврелиан, извини за оффтоп онгоинг, но тут вопрос не в Сафане как таковом, а в общем методе, который делает выводы, не учитывая исходных языков. разночтения возникают, потому что переводы делались с разных языков. именно Sapphon встречается в одном английском переводе с греческого (и далеко не самом распространенном). близкие к нему (Saphan) - в переводе с латыни (Вульгата) и как Sapphan - опять в переводе с греческого. если привязывать к традиции передачи библейских имен в русском, то ориентироваться надо на Синодальный перевод, а он делался с иврита, так что закономерно возник Шафан.

чаще в библейских текстах он идет как Шафан. пруф и пруф. править так уж править.

i Уведомление: перенос из Книжных новостей. Dэн, ты телепат...

! Предупреждение: отставить флуд и оффтоп в новостях.

ок, только не переведу, а перескажу. "Раскрывающийся текст" 1. Альфа терпят Кабал, но имеют свои планы на эту войну. будут делать то, что хочет от них Кабал, но не будут у них на побегушках. 2. от Воронов Кабалу ничего не нужно, прямых контактов между ними в книге нет. их интересует только Исходный Материал, кот-ый должен достаться Хорусу, чтобы сработал тот долгий план на вытравление Хаоса. 3. генно-инженерные эксперименты Коракса - основа сюжета. Рапторы как результат в целом лучше обычных астартес, тк в них больше от примархов. 4. эмоционально Коракс одержим идеей восстановить легион и отпинать Хоруса за Исстваан. только под конец Бранну удается убедить его, что этот проект не стоит того, чтобы жертвовать всем остальным. 5. ничего не сказано о создании оружия Коракса - когти у него уже есть. 6. смысл названия: с одной стороны, это многотысячные потери легиона, с другой - это сам проект с Рапторами, кот-ый мог бы спасти легион, но... 7. Импи рассказывает Кораксу о хаособогах, об их жажде человеческой жизненной энергии, и о том, что работает с вебвеем, чтобы отказаться от путешествий в варпе. также рассказывает о проступке Магнуса. 8. каждый образец Исходного материала уникален. в № 6 целая цепочка человеческого ДНА заменена животной; № 4 снабжен особой выносливостью, уменьшенным восприятием боли и несколько большей медлительностью, чем остальные. у двадцатки не хватает целого пучка, ответственного за рост\развитие.

еще спойлерные детали по той же схеме "вопрос-ответ". "нерусские буквы, много их" - What is the new relation between the Cabal and the Alpha Legion? The Alpha Legion tolerate the Cabal, but they are going to fight this war their way. They'll do what the Cabal want, but they won't be their lapdogs. However even that tolerance ends when in the epilogue Omegon finally loses his patience with Athithirtir and ejects him into space saying "(About his ship)I am sure it will be here, maybe in a century or two." - What does the Cabal want with the Raven Guard? Do the Cabal and the Raven Guard interact at all? Nothing. The Cabal don't care about the Raven Guard. The Source Material though, that they care about. They want Horus to have it so he'll get his quick victory and [enter long plan here]... eventually Chaos dies. The Cabal only interact with the Alpha Legion. - How much do we get to see of Corax's attempts to co-engineer new gene-seed/astartes? The whole plot of the book is Corax and the engineering of new Astartes. The Raptors, the next generation of Astartes. But superior to even Astartes with more of the Primarchs built into them. The book demonstrates that a Raptor can easily best an Astartes in close combat. They aren't invincible but they are much better. - What is Corax's emotional state? Mainly he is focused on rebuilding the Legion and extracting a harsh toll on Horus and his traitors for Istvaan. He gets more and more focused on it until near the end when Commander Branne is able to convince him that the project isn't worth losing everything. After that he regains his normal good cheer and easy-going nature. - Is there a mention of him forging the lightning claws used by Kayvaan Shrike? He has them already. One was apparently damaged on Istvaan but he uses them himself in battle along with his power whip. - How does the title fit in with the plot of the novel? Well it kinda refers to the loss of over 75,000 legionaires on Istvaan, that's a pretty big hit for the Raven Guard. But I suppose its what happens to the Source Material and the Raptors. It would have delivered the Legion from defeat, and it turned out badly. - What does the Emperor really tell Corax about Chaos? He tells Corax about the Chaos Gods, about how they hunger for human vitality and that he is working on accessing the webway to make warp travel obsolete. He also tells Corax about the incident with Magnus and the breach on Terra. - Are Alpharius and Omegon definitively stated to be the runts of the primarch litter? When examining the Source Material Nexin Orlandriaz (A Magos Genetor) tells Corax that each sample is unique. For example Sample Six is missing a whole strand of human DNA that has been replaced by something else, he posits it is animal DNA. Sample Four is engineered for physical endurance and has lower reaction and cognitive functions. And Sample 20 is missing a whole host of growth enhancements. + Wait sorry I got the wording wrong. Sample Four is described as missing genes that boost the genetic structure responsible for the development of nocireceptors and proprioceptors. In English that means that those warriors with Sample Four don't feel pain the same way as others, it would be significantly lessened for them. They would also be a bit slower in movement than most.

гл. 6: News of the massacre on Isstvan V spread, as all bad news does, with gleeful rapidity, as if those who bore it took unseemly relish in passing it on... Yet as the hours passed and fragments of information eked from the City of Sight, it became harder to deny the truth of Ferrus Manus's death. People tore out their hair and mortified their flesh in bloody honour of the Emperor's fallen son. в конце этой же главы начинают подозревать, что в Паттерне предсказано и явление Магнуса (которое начинается в конце гл. 7). за объяснением Магнусова молчания "изнутри", а не с т.зр. терранских астропатов, надо лезть в "Тысячу сынов", но лениво.

спойлеры пошли. "детализация" Corax's name of Corvus was the name given to him by the people who found him on Lycaeus. Its just a name. Corax however means Saviour in their tongue as we already know, and as Corax's Rebellion progressed more and more of his followers started calling him by that name over Corvus. Though those who are very close to Corax sometimes call him Corvus. The Legions fight the battles they are best at. The Raven Guard fight with their lightning strikes against the Word Bearers on Cruciax, a small listening outpost, and against the Emperor's Children in The Perfect Fortress. The Alpha Legion fight as we expect them to, with misdirection, feint attacks and manipulating others into fighting for them. The Alpha Legion's allies in The Order of the Dragon and the Kivahr Guilds lose this battle, but the Alpha Legion win. As do the Raven Guard in a different way. The Alpha Legion infiltrated the Raven Guard by use of extremely advanced surgery. They gathered the bodies of dead Raven Guard and surgically removed their faces and grafted them onto Alpha Legionaries that were chosen for the task. The Apothecaries remodelled the entire body of the operatives to make sure they could not be revealed as Alpha Legion. Then the Librarians, which apparently Alpharius and Omegon kept in operation despite Nikea, removed all of their memories apart from the fact that they are Alpha Legion and on a mission for the Primarch. They don't remember their names, what they look like or their whole past. The Raven Guard's memories were extracted and put into them so they can pass for them. A full Librarian scan would have easily caught them but the Raven Guard dismantled its Librarius in accordance with Nikea. The Cabal's envoy is Athithirtir, who is described by Alpharius as a shrivelled hand with seven fingers and no thumb floating in a glass orb filled with yellow translucent gas. It speaks through a vox and throughout the novel is trying to bring Alpharius directly under the Cabal's control. It ends a bit badly for him, he isn't dead but we definitely won't be seeing him again. Flashbacks show Deliverance/Lycaeus and Kivahr quite a lot. Deliverance itself is deceptive in appearance, Corax ordered that no damage be repaired as a tribute to those who died to bring freedom. Of course safety measures are taken but the entire planet looks quite broken, but its still deadly. Kivahr is typical of a quasi-Forge World, its filled with broken cities, polluted atmosphere and many mutants. The Ravendelve, a base where most of the action takes place, is located in the middle of a dead city that used to belong to the Guilders. The Ravenspire doesn't make a huge appearance but we get some background on it. It used to be a prison complex and is where Corax was raised initally. It contains something called a Red Level that nobody from Deliverance ever speaks about, apparantely its where they did the worst tortures on prisoners. Corax even refuses to send a captive Word Bearer Chaplain in there, its that bad. The Legion is restructured into four batallions bearing the name Hawks, Talons, Falcons and Raptors. The Talons are the battle-brothers of the Legion, the tactical squads. The Raptors are the recruits of the Legion and the new marines created in the novel, you'll see a good deal of them. The Hawks are the Dreadnoughts and Assault marines. And the Falcons are the bike squads, land speeders and aircraft crews. The Emperor tells him a lot. Firstly he FINALLY! explains Chaos to him, Corax buys it straight up and understands it quickly. Now why couldn't he have bloody well told Horus the same thing?! He then tells him about the Primarch project and gives permission for Corax to use the original source material that was used to create the Primarchs to create a new generation of Astartes. He also hints that the Two Missing Primarchs were found and lost before Corax was discovered. + более официальная (и менее спойлерная) рецензия от Lord of the Night

дочитала вчера сие творение, с трактовкой igori кое-что не стыкуется. это стало известно еще до появления Магнуса (гл. 6). In all its long history, only one individual had ever escaped Khangba Marwu, a congenital dwarf named Zamora who was said to have once attained the rank of major in the proto-Legio Custodes, a fact that made the stories of his escape all the more ridiculous. - где про байку? таки история этого места. астропато-боссы обсуждают, что давненько ничего не слышно с Просперо, и предполагают, что Магнус все еще страдает от унижения на Никее. даже собираются подключить дополнительные хоры, чтобы с ним связаться, но Perhaps Magnus is still smarting after his treatment at Nikaea, said Sarashina.Magnus will re-establish contact before long, I am sure. As hurt as he was by the judgement, he loves his father too dearly to remain estranged for long. упоминаний про "намеренно не говорить" со стороны терранских властей не припомню, где это было? он отдал приказ объявить сбор только тем ПН, что были в Солнечной системе, а потом послал зашифрованное сообщение Вулкану и Кораксу. неочевидно. емнип, в той сцене на Просперо, где Магнус готовится к сеансу связи, сказано только, что сидел он, готовясь, 4 дня. его собственно появление только запускает осознание той Pattern, кот-ю собирал всю жизнь Грегорас.

начинается с гл. 7, потом еще пара глав - процесс и последствия. ...также из этой книги мы получаем ценные знания, что ДИ таки красят волосы. :rolleyes:

карлик, скорее. а это не иначе как его предок.

! Предупреждение: временно закрыто. открою после санитарной чистки. готово, просьба больше не мусорить, а то одного героя этой бурной дискуссии мы уже потеряли.

это чтобы они взаимозаменяемыми были: писатели приходят и уходят, а медиа-франшиза остается.