[HH-38] Angels of Caliban

[Mad_Rat]

Ну в Ретрибьюшене у дарков указаны чаптер и Host, что подразумевает на то что это уровень выше чаптера.

Но я подозреваю, что это деление, альтернативное организации, то есть все чаптеры включают в себя элементы разных крыльев. Это логично с точки зрения того, что они выполняют разные функции судя по описаниям, плюс двойная система командования - классический вариант для параноидального контроля.

Вообще, там написано, Ordination of the Deathwing/Fire Wing. Ordination - это рукоположение в священники. Посвящение в Крыло Смерти? Тогда это рили что-то вроде Культов у ТС.

Изменено 30 мая, 2016 пользователем Mad_Rat

[Monique]

Ну в Ретрибьюшене у дарков указаны чаптер и Host, что подразумевает на то что это уровень выше чаптера.

Не совсем. Там указано, в каком капитуле какого воинства состоит легионер - и членом какого Крыла он является.

[RedFurioso]

Ещё немного про структуру DA из Unremembered Empire

That identity had needed to be complete. When there was only one Legion, that Legion had been obliged to contain all specialisms. Guilliman knew that the six hosts or ‘wings’ of the Dark Angels represented specialisms of every school, at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa.

The Lion looked at Guilliman. The Avenging Son looked at the Lion. The Lion’s black armour was richly engraved and inlaid with red gold. The chestplate and pauldrons displayed all the interconnected icons and symbols of his Legion, the complex heraldry of the Dark Angels hierarchies, visible and invisible. All the secret hosts, thrones and powers of the First Legion’s secret structure were represented there, united by the central insignia, the six-pointed hexagrammaton. He wore the pelt of a forest beast across his right shoulder, and the golden badge of a shrouded urn at his throat.

‘Our guests have made no resistance,’ he replied, again stressing the word ‘guests’. ‘They have allowed themselves to be escorted to confinement.’

‘Have they surrendered weapons?’

‘Some of them have, lord,’ said Caspean, ‘but we have not made that demand of them. As per your instructions, we are treating them as respected battle-brothers, and regarding this as the unfortunate accident their lord claims it to be.’

‘How many?’

‘A strength in excess of five companies… as our Legion would consider it. I have little patience with their “wings” and cohort divisions.’

Воинство = Крыло

[Monique]

Воинство = Крыло

На странице 73 HH-FW-6 Третье воинство и орден Крыла Смерти указаны как совершенно разные формирования. Терминатор носит символ Крыла на нагруднике, символ воинства на левом наколеннике и номер капитула на правом.

[brRibbotaim]

Форджа и БЛ сами не разобрались в структуре или что-то напутали или ТА путают других) Они же почти как Альфа Легион, судя по инфильтрации на кораблик Волков во время сражения.

[Monique]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/3...lers/?p=4408381

"Спойлерописец отвечает на вопросы..."

b1soul: Guilliman and Sanguinius have an empire to run. I think they also want to avoid a booby trap situation like in Unrembered Empire, when the Lion and Guillian were together and nearly killed by Curzes bombs. Of course when the Lion finds curze, he can call them both in if necessary.

HeritorA: Sevatar is not in this book. The duel with Curze is coming, I haven't got to that bit yet though. I'll tell you the ending when I get there biggrin.png There is no void combat yet, save for the orbital warp rift attack made by the Intolerant. Its not stated what classification of ship the Intolerant is. There is the fleet with the Lion, and the fleet of transports from terra nulls and a battleship with Belath at Caliban. The Caliban based Dark Angels have no fleet, the Lion took it off them.

This novel may be seen as a filler novel by many heresy fans, I can see that. Its based around what is happening on Caliban, which won't play out until after the Battle of Terra, the hunt for Curze and the ending of Imperium Seconds that began in Pharos. However Dark Angel fans will love this novel, its loaded with information on the first legion.

Kelborn: The 6th is the Firewing. Not sure on the exact size of the Legion. There are about 40,000 on Caliban (30,000 new recruits Belath wants to take, and some other units the Lion sent back). Corswain has 30,000. I'm not sure how many the Lion has with him, in Unremembered Empire it was said he had 20,000 Dark Angels ready for a drop assault on Macgragge, but he may have more in his actual fleet (keeping some back for reserves!). So thats 90,000 at least, probably more. Then we have the Dark Angels from the watch stations from the Wolf King novella, with no indication of their numbers. Also, remember The Lion and Corswains forces would have taken casualties fighting the Night Lords in the Thramas crusade, and Corswains forces may have taken casualties fighting Typhons Death Guard.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/3...lers/?p=4408385

"...и продолжает спойлерить"

Guilliaman and the lion speak on a balcony. Macragge is about to be locked down under martial law to help the lion in his hunt for Curze. The lion is bringing the dark Angels to the surface of macragge to hunt Curze.

Guilliman has a chat with his mum.

Back to Caliban. Zahariel and Astelan converse. The ships that entered the system earlier have arrived. It's the force of Dark Angels under Chapter Master Belath. This is the force that was sent by Corswain back in the short story By the Lions Command, to bring the new recruits on Caliban into the fighting.

They take him to see Luther. On the way, Zahariel asks for news of Nemiel. Belath says he is dead, but does not elaborate further. Zahariel has already sensed he is hiding something though. Zahariel makes a sudden psychic intursion on Belaths mind, and finds out the truth that the Lion killed Nemiel.

Back to ultramar. In the Illyrian mountains, Guilliman flies in to meet the lion and his forces. Following up leads into finding Curze

Caliban. Belath meets with Luther, cypher, Astelan and Zahariel. He updates them on the heresy and the current disposition of the Dark Angels. Corswain is mentioned again. Belath states that 30,000 Dark Angels are under Corswains command.

Luther and co aren't sure wether to believe what Belaths has said, and are reluctant to send the forces of new recruits on Caliban (also numbering 30,000) out into the war. Zahariel mind scans Belath again, to verify his claims, and finds they are true. They assure Belath they will turn the troops over to his command (Luther is commanded to remain on Caliban). Belath leaves and Luther and co begin working out a way to keep the legionaries on Caliban and to break from the imperium. The believe they may be able to turn Belath to their cause, as he and his officers are calibanites.

Luther states that they cannot choose a side to align with, either Horus or the Emperor, until they are certain which side will win. Exactly what Astelan accuses the Lion of doing in Angels of Darkness!!

Though their are differences of opinion between Luther and co, they all agree to break their oaths to the Lion. They agree they are no longer Dark Angels, their loyalty is to The Order.

Zahariel and takes his mystai librarians into a special warp/sorcery type room and connects them to the ouroboros demon like he is.

[Cinereo Cardinalem]

Чет я уже сомневаюсь, что тот Серый-Темный Ангел из "Пандоракса" - Захариил.

[Mad_Rat]

Exactly what Astelan accuses the Lion of doing in Angels of Darkness!!

Здраститя, а то что и в Торповой трилогии в 40К, и в Fallen Angels и Master of First Астелян оказался редкой подлости интриганом, готовым что угодно соврать, ради достижения своих сомнительных целей, он видимо пропустил.

Вообще, мне интересно, что они серьезно рассматривают вариант переманить Белата, учитывая какие у него отношения к Астеляном. Не удивлюсь, если он (Астелян) просто пырнет его силовой отверткой в печень в темном калибанском переулке.

Чет я уже сомневаюсь, что тот Серый-Темный Ангел из "Пандоракса" - Захариил.

Но ведь Захариил - скорее всего Сайфер, по текущей схеме. Это единственный вариант, который проясняет его действия в 40К.

Изменено 31 мая, 2016 пользователем Mad_Rat

[Monique]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/3...lers/?p=4408973

"ПРОДОЛЖЕНИЕ СПОЙЛЕРОВ"

Back to Ultramar. This chapter is entitled locking the stable gate, lol. The lion, sanguinius and guilliman are planning over a model of macragge civitas.

Guilliman and prayto quote Shakespeare.

Holguin leads armour and Dark Angels by macragge civitas. They march into the city to assume protection of the primarchs. Another unique Dark Angel vehicle gets a mention, 'super-heavy Portcullis monotracks', a vehicle bearing energy shield generators. Also a type of flyer, the Swordstrike interceptor. Holguins personal Land Raider doesn't have tracks, it has an anti-gravity generator!

At Illyrium, an ultramarine and a dark angel squad are killed by a booby trap. An ultramarine whirlwind is destroyed. A thunder hawk transport is destroyed. There are anti-imperial rebels in Illyrium who have carried out these attacks. The lion believe Curze is behind it. The primarchs decide Curze wants them to drive further into Illyrium and become bogged down by an insurgency. They withdraw from Illyrium.

Caliban. More discussion between Luther and co. Belath returns to see Luther, with the Librarian Asmodeus. Asmodeus was involved with the lion killing Nemiel incident. Asmodeus tries a subtle mind read of Astelan, Zahariel tries to block his thoughts so he won't find out about the rebellion. Both are repulsed by a powerful block in Astelans mind. Astelan reveals to Zahariel that he had a kind of psychic protection put in his mind by the emperor. As we already know Astelan was one of the first marines created. All of the initial first legion marines had this psychic protection. The emperor did not give it to subsequent first legion marines or those of any other legion, as it was too much for him when marines started being produced in greater numbers.

Luther reflects on his past history. Belath arrives. He is concerned Luther is stalling.

The 30,000 recruits he is to take are all fresh, none of them has seen actual combat (aside from, presumably, their commanders). Luther tells him it's taking time to ready so many men for lifting to orbit. There will be a ceremony to see them off.

Luther talks with cypher. Cypher is charged with trying to bring Belaths warriors to their side. Luther is not sure he will be able to order their deaths if they don't.

Belaths Warriors arrive. They are observed from a balcony by Zahariel and his psykers. A renowned warrior has arrived with Belath, a marine called Griffayn. He is known to everyone as the commander of the fire wing, however his armour marks his rank as sergeant at arms, not as voted-lieutenant. For some reason his rank is held in abeyance.

Ultramar. The lion tells Guilliman and sanguinius of insurrectionist attacks from illyrium. He argues that it is a non-compliant area full of rebels and should be scoured by orbital bombardment. Obviously Guilliman is against this, arguing that many in illyrium are neutral innocents (it is a city of 4 million). Sanguinius forbids the Lion from making an orbital bombardment, but authorises him to use any means necessary to go into illyrium and find Curze.

Fast forward a little bit and we are with surviving insurrectionist in a part of the now heavily shelled city of illyrium. They observe a gunship arriving in the vicinity. Out steps Farith Redloss. Incoming rockets hit the area, they are phosphex rockets. The insurrectionist are killed. The pacification of illyrium has commenced.

Caliban. The triumphal feast. Eating, drinking, and powerful oratory from Luther. Zahariel attempts to subtly mind read Belaths Warriors as he passes out wine. Luther is talking of Caliban and the dark Angels. Zahariel is able to gauge which dark Angels are more attached to Caliban or the Lion and legion. Zahariel gives a gold cup to those who are mentally responding more to the parts about Caliban. He gives a silver cup to those responding more to the Dark Angel parts.

Ultramar. Illyrium is burning. It is being hammered by the Dreadwing. The Deathwing continue guarding macragge civitas. The rest of the Dark Angels are standing in reserve and patrolling and enforcing order on the encampments of refugees from Illyrium. The cave systems of the highlands, a perfect hide out for the rebels, have yet to be attacked. The lion has arrived to take personal command

Изменено 31 мая, 2016 пользователем Облачённая в Слово

[Monique]

У самого первого набора ТА - психическая защита, установленная лично Императором. Ещё у ТА есть антигравитационные Лэнд-рейдеры и неисчислимое множество другой уникальной техники. И они меньше всех зависят от Механикума.

Имидж им поменяли капитально, ничего не скажешь.

[Cinereo Cardinalem]

Вот теперь это Первый Легион. Во всех отношениях. :D

[Str0chan]

Поддержу, мне такой реткон нравится. Он, во-первых, логичен, во-вторых, подводит базу под несравненное самомнение ТА, в-третьих, именно такие идеальные мальчики с плакатов и элита элит могли страшно расстроиться из-за раскола в собственных рядах и батхёртить 10 000 лет.

[Survivor]

Не полне ясно, а что ж за тайные знания они скрывают в своей запутанной структуре? Точнее, в 40к приблизительно ясно - а вот в 30-ке то что они скрывали?

Предположу, что всякие тактические доктрины и прочую военную лабуду. Рукоположили товарища в дредвинг - и вот тут ему и начинает его мастер-наставник по тайной внутренней иерархией крыла раскрывать секреты как стрелять из фосфекса. Через пару уровней посвящения ему раскрывают, секрет того как засунуть палец в фосфекс, облизать его и чтобы ничего не было. В ревенвинге объясняют что вот эта ручка на самом деле дворники, а не соматический автомолитвенник духу машины байка, и т.п.

[RedFurioso]

В том-то и дело, что скрывать им особо нечего. Это не TS, которые прятали у себя запрещённые книжки, и не WB с их тайной ересью.

Особенно смешно вот это:

Инкрустированный красным золотом чёрный доспех Льва покрывала искусная гравировка. На наплечниках и нагруднике были изображены все взаимосвязанные знаки и символы его легиона, запутанная геральдика, как видимой, так и невидимой иерархии Тёмных Ангелов. Все секретные воинства, троны и силы тайной структуры Первого легиона, объединённые центральным символом – шестиконечным гексаграмматоном.

Такое, знаете, показушное "ну маам, у меня сикреты!1". Тот, кто действительно хочет скрыть секрет, не будет выпячивать его перед посторонними.

[Monique]

Такое, знаете, показушное "ну маам, у меня сикреты!1". Тот, кто действительно хочет скрыть секрет, не будет выпячивать его перед посторонними.

Лев всем своим видом показывает - вон сколько у меня секретных и сверхсекретных формирований! А вы гадайте, для чего они нужны!

Попытка разобраться в организации ТА довела бы Гуйлимана до истерики =)

[Monique]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/3...lers/?p=4409117

"СПОЙЛЕРЫ"

Redloss wants to use orbital gunfire support to crack open the mountain, but they can't because of sanguinius's orders. They will take casualties if they go into the mountain tunnels, and Curze could escape at the last moment. Redloss proposes using death storm pods, tarantulas, rapier a and a variety of ordnance to seal off the mountain. Then they will deploy dread hammer tanks with void shells to open holes in the mountain. Then assault Rams and drop pods loaded with rad and phosphex will be flown into the breaches. This will render Ilyrium largely uninhabitable for centuries.

It will be an orbital assault, which sanguinius had forbade, however it will look like an infantry drop, so they will be able to get away with it. The lion maker one amendment to the plan - when the mountain had been cleansed the Dreadwing will seal the mountain and withdraw. The Lion will then go in alone to hunt Curze.

Caliban. Astelan, Galedan and some marines land on one of the transports and take possession of it from the crew. Other groups are taking the rest of the transports. Astelan and Galedan then go to take over Belaths ship, a battle barge. It happens to be Astelans old command ship, that was taken off him after Zaramund.

Ultramar. The Dreadwing have done their thing to the mountain. The lion goes in to hunt Curze down. He goes in alone to draw Curze out. Curze will be too tempted to attack him instead of escaping again.

Holguin is with sanguinius, Guilliaman and Valentus dolor. Guilliman is agitated that they have heard nothing in 2 days from Ilyrium. There are also questions from sanguinius and dolor. Holguin is diplomatic.

Caliban. Back to the ceremonial feast. Some of Luthers marines are on the balcony above the grand hall. Belaths Warriors are marked with the gold or silver cups signalling their likely allegiance. Belath receives a message that Astelan has seized his ships and reacts badly. Luther tells Belath and his Warriors that it is time Caliban was liberated from the imperium. Belaths is intensely angry. Luther wants to win him and his company round and attempts to convince them through his skilful oratory. Zahariel attempts to subtly psychically sway them to Luthers side using the power of the Ourbourus. Luther uses the example of Prospero in and attempt to convince them the Emperor is a tyrant. Luther also mentions Lokens visit coming to Caliban as a spy for the emperor, and that the lion has gone to macragge to guillimans second empire.

It appears Luther has won them over. But Zahariel knows Caliban, or rather the Ourbourus demon, wants conflict, not peaceful resolution. He makes a psychic attack on Belath, a bolt of green lightning that kills Belath instantly. He says he had a vision that Belath was about to attack Luther. He commands them to slay Belaths marines, and everyone opens fire.

"ЕЩЁ СПОЙЛЕРЫ"

Curze suddenly attacks but the Lion is ready for it. He takes a minor wound but curzes attack is turned aside. The lion fires a bolter point blank into curzes chest, forcing him to withdraw to the shadows. Curze strikes several times out of the darkness, but the lion avoids the attacks, using instinctual skill, like he did as a child against the beasts in the forests. He gets a stab in with his blade to curzes torso.

More fighting. The lion is getting the better of Curze. He chases him into a temple. They talk a bit. More fighting. Curze then reveals he has Azkaellons hand, with the terminus device still attached and he is going to use it to blow up melta bombs has had lined the temple with. The lion informs him his men were at the temple yesterday and disabled the bombs. Curze is beginning to realise he has been out played! He runs through the temple to escape and gets to the surface. A missile explodes nearby, knocking him into the wall. 3 Dark Angel fire raptors are blocking the way. Curze is angry. He turns and throws himself at the lion. They fight more. Curze is lethal but the lion deflects his attacks, sustaining a few minor injuries.

Curze insists the lion can't kill him, because he is destined to die by the hand of an assassin. The lion strikes, stabbing Curze through the forearm pinning him to the wall. Curze pulls his arm free and fights back. The lion has the better of Curze though, grabs him and throws them both down some stairs. He hits Curze in the neck and the head. He asks Curze why he turned. Curze does not know, he is not sane. He puts his sword to curzes throat, to the scar he left at the end of the thramas crusade. Curze wants to die, to be released.

The Lion says he will not kill him. He then gives Curze a complete battering, pounding him into the floor, throwing him into the walls, kicking and kneeing him. He rips curzes backpack off his armour. He lifts Curze in the air and pulls him down across his shoulders, breaking his back!!!

Curze asks why, the lion says he will not murder him, he will face justice and be executed. The lion breaks curzes Lightning claws off. He sees a calibanites sword on Curzes belt and takes it; it's the sword Corswain stabbed Curze in the back with.

Redloss and the Dreadwing arrive. The Lion orders them to bring heavy chains to bind Curze.

"И ещё чуть-чуть"

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/?p=4409124

ВОПРОС: Zahariel is doing the Orouborus's bidding?! Doesn't that fly in the face of him sealing the thing away before, and being really damn weary of it in Guardian of the Order?

And wasn't he supposedly a Grey Knight dude as per Pandorax?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/3...lers/?p=4409129

ОТВЕТ: Yes thats right. He was corrupted in some way when he was trapped inside it. He sees it as the heart, soul and life of caliban. He can see its influence on the world around him. He is using its power and doing what he feels it wants.

It was trapped in Caliban (by the Watchers i guess) a long time ago, he has given it a connection to the warp again.

[Alfаrius]

по крыльям есть что-нибудь новое?

[brRibbotaim]

Кто переводить намерен?

[MoonPhoenix]

В том-то и дело, что скрывать им особо нечего. Это не TS, которые прятали у себя запрещённые книжки, и не WB с их тайной ересью.

Может скрывали, что у них планета почти демонический мир, плюс связь с ксеносами-ночниками, плюс какая-то тайна Льва уходящая корнями в его детство (возможно близкое знакомство с демонами). Вдруг форджа еще чего подкинет в ИА из периода объединительных войн типа "Трилистника".

Особенно смешно вот это:

Такое, знаете, показушное "ну маам, у меня сикреты!1". Тот, кто действительно хочет скрыть секрет, не будет выпячивать его перед посторонними.

Опять же Альфа точно так же поступала. Всякие там знаки на доспехах.

Изменено 1 июня, 2016 пользователем MoonPhoenix

[Monique]

Когда читала, как Лев ловит Кёрза, чтобы предать суду - сразу вспомнилась охота Харэля за Эйхманом:

– Не проще ли было разделаться с ним на месте?

– Ни в коем случае! Цель была совершенно иная – предать Эйхмана суду. Я помню, как глава правительства Бен-Гурион внушал нам: только привезите его живым, доставьте в таком состоянии, чтобы его можно было судить.

[Myagky]

Господа-товарищи спойлерните спойлеры хотяб кратенько на великом и могучем, жуть как интересно же

[Mad_Rat]

Мне вот интересно, чем Керз мог увлечь целый город на Макрагге (!), чтобы там пришлось АТО с применением фосфекса по мирняку проводить.

Или это те самые трущобы, про которые он Сангвинию, емнип, рассказывал? Я думал это часть столицы, а не отдельный город.

[BrEd Pitt]

Вероятнее всего, это как Город Просителей на Терре. Трущобы всюду, рядом со столицей.

[Legatus]

Когда читала, как Лев ловит Кёрза, чтобы предать суду - сразу вспомнилась охота Харэля за Эйхманом:

Эйхман, подозреваю, был не в лучшей физической форме (не боец), его надо было выследить и вывезти. Опять же миру надо было показать, что это именно Эйхман, а публичный процесс должен был раскрыть его преступления. Ловить для суда примарха - дело малость самонадеянное, если не сказать безумное. Особенно, если этот примарх умеет и любит нападать "из теней". Да, причастных к теракту в Мюнхене 1972 г. спецслужбы Израиля предпочли ликвидировать. Понятно, что бэк прописан, и Керз умрет позднее, но его хотя бы надо было постараться убить. А то один к совести взывает, другой мстит оставляя в живых, третий для суда ловит...

[Legatus]

Мне вот интересно, чем Керз мог увлечь целый город на Макрагге (!), чтобы там пришлось АТО с применением фосфекса по мирняку проводить.

Странно. Керз не маг как Магнус, не умеет балаболить как Лоргар, красотой тоже не блещет. Его главное оружие - страх. Как нужно запугать людей, особенно когда родной Жиллиман под боком. Или не родной? Может там компактно проживали потомки тех, кого Робаут казнил или отстранил от власти после убийства приемного отца.

Но видать дело совсем пошло плохо, т.к. Жиллиман очень не любил фосфекс, скрепя сердце оставив его "на всякий случай"... Там не "Немезиды" случаем работали?