[Обсуждение] Chaos Space Marines: новости и слухи

[Акабоши но Теньши]

So does Soul Blaze replace the AP3 on 1k sons bolters, or is it in addition to it? And since rapid fire weapons can be fired on the move now, do they still have SnP? [Are just like before, but with Soulfire] They are just like 1) do Chaos bikes get a reasonable price reduction, similar to C:SM ones? [No Idea] 2) do Havoc weapons options get cheaper? [Yes almost as cheap as Long Fangs] 3) do Terminators come standard with Power Axes in their new cost? [i think you still get to pick Sword or Axe your choice] 4) are there any FOC shenanigans like moving Terminators, Bikes or Raptors to troops? [Nope just cult troops] Do the Thousand Sons get any new options (say, like Heavy Bolters?)? [None that I know of] Even with all those upgrades and tables, the codex somehow sounds ”down to earth” like the current DA codex. Does it feel the same? Like a careful approach to a new edition of rules? [seems careful, I would say they are just copying there approach they used with Fantasy] - How do Icons and Marks work? Are Icons still bound to one model and lost whet it dies? [No idea] - Can Vehicles and special units (Obliteratiors, Dragon, etc.) be marked? [some can some cannot] - Which weapons of Plaguemarines are poisoned? CC weapons, Shooty weapons or both? [No idea] - Do marked Sorcerers or marked Daemonprinces also make cult units a troop choice? [Princes no, Sorcerers Yes]

http://darogscompany.blogspot.com/2012/07/blog-post_25.html

[Estienne]

Я чтото не вкурил, без "колдуна" культисты не труп чойз? А ктож они? Или их какбы просто без колдуна в HQ нет?

[SmallEvilman]

Не культисты а культ юниты(!) ака нойзы, плаги, големы

[SteelSerpent]

Колдун Тзинча, например, переводит големов в трупсу. А ДП так не может.

Изменено 25 июля, 2012 пользователем SteelSerpent

[Nailbrain]

Колдун Тзинча, например, переводит големов в трупсу. А ДП так не может.

Может Лорд с маркой Тзинча, а не сорк? Вроде бы выше оговаривалось, что только лорды и некоторые индепы с маркой так могут... Поправьте если не так. :?

[SteelSerpent]

Сверху написали что и сорки могут.

Do marked Sorcerers or marked Daemonprinces also make cult units a troop choice? [Princes no, Sorcerers Yes]

[Nailbrain]

Сверху написали что и сорки могут.

оу, круто =)

[Tiphus]

Характеристики новых демонов

Screamers

Screamers now cost 9 more points per model and have two wounds, 3 attacks at S5 AP2 with armourbane. Better against most vehicles. They also get a slashing attack that works like a vector strike if they turbo-boost. It's d3 S4 AP- hits. Screamers are now terminator killers in addition to anti-armor thanks to 4 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge at I4.

Hellflayer

The new fast attack choice. You can only have a squad of one. It costs 10 points more than a naked Herald. It's a non-skimmer chariot that is fast and open-topped with AV 11 (Immune to bolters) and two hull points. Its Hammer of Wrath attacks are S4 AP- rending and it deals an extra D6 HoW attacks for each hull point it has left, (so 2d6 HOW attacks at full HP).

Soulscent allows the Alluress to take a few more swings for each unsaved wound caused by the HOW attacks before she almost certainly dies. It is Fast and Fleet so it can move 12" after deep striking and reroll the charge move.

Seeker Chariots and Exalted Seeker Chariots

These come in a squadron of 1-3 and have Fleshshredder but not Soulscent. The exalted chariot has 4 HP so can do 4d6 HoW hits. A squadron could do up to 12d6 HoW hits for 270 points. Which gets you about 7 rending hits plus 36 S4 hits on average.

Flamers

The cost is dropped 12 points, they have 2 wounds and are I4. You can now take a 5 point upgrade character.

Еще больше слухов по ХСМ!

via 75hastings69 on Warseer

Daemons wave is indeed next, CSM is the next Codex (full release) maybe I should have made that clearer in my earlier post. CSM also get some kind of mechanical Centauroid weapon platform/unit, I'll try and recall all the CSM.

ive made a list of what models the CSM players can expext, note that i dont know if these will all come at once or in waves, some of these (or click fit varients of them) are in the starter box.

Note also that ill not be adding rules or updating this thread in anyway so that will be up to you guys.

I'm expecting the codex to hit late October or early November (depending on if the rumour that the wfb WoC army book isn't out till feb 2013 is true or not - I'm still expecting that book in October)

Upcoming models:-

Raptors (plastic 2 types)

Dread looks like an angry obliterater on roids!

Obliterators look good but not as good as the "mauler" CC version

Dragon flyer is ok

Two deamonic Centauroid cannon things a bit iffy

Warp smith

Apostles

Cultists

Some odd walker thing

New csm marines (could be recut with added bits? Either way I didn't recognise them as current ones - but then again my 40k fu is weak!)

Chosen very nice too

My understanding is the Obliterators are a new plastic kit that includes the CC mauler variant options. I would "imagine" that these maulers are designed to compete in just that kind of role.

AFAIK the current plastic termie lord kit remains.

I refuse to comment about finecrast - (there are obviously characters too, and they're I'm finecast! - iirc new Kharn the betrayer is one of them)

via Erazmus_M_Wattle

I can back Hastings up somewhat here. My moles in GW reported that there was a new close combat unit. Like cc obliterators. Both builds looked lovely. I've been informed that they are going to be two to a box. This reminds me if an older rumour that they'd go up to a squad size of six. It seems odd for two to a box with the current size of three.

The dark apostle is very nice.

As for the dread I've heard nothing.

Perhaps the roided up dread might be a model to represent a possessed dread. I can't imagine they'd invalidate regular dreads. Let's not forget Hastings stated he was only talking about models. No need to panic that our expensive forge-world dreads have been invalidated. I expect the more basic dreads with still be viable.

http://darogscompany.blogspot.com/

[XaoS]

Не радует то, что кодекс обещают в Октябре. Если он готов, то чего они ждут?

[Mad_Rat]

Народ на шестерку потратился, чо.

[ Добавлено спустя 48 секунд ]

Народ на шестерку потратился, чо.

[Locke]

Если он готов, то чего они ждут?

У ГеВе проблемы с дистрибуцией. Выход шестерки был зафейлен с точки зрения логистики. Вот они и откладывают, чтобы не зафейлить хотя бы Хаос. Хотя необходимость откладывать готовый кодекс - уже фейл.

[DEAD_DimaZ]

Хотя необходимость откладывать готовый кодекс - уже фейл.

А может как раз таки и не фэйл - сначала люди допилят росписки под пару первых турниров по 6-ке по старому кодексу. то есть деньги потратят :) а потом вот, пожалуйста, вам новый кодекс, снова идите в кассу. все же просто.

В киноиндустрии готовые фильмы откладывают на полгода легко, чтоб был удачный момент для релиза.

P.S. Вообще, маркетинг, только на первый взгляд, кажется очевидной дисциплиной.

Изменено 26 июля, 2012 пользователем Ленивец Сид

[Юрий Игоревич]

Noise marines are overall a little bit cheaper. Sonic Blasters are 36" salvo now. Aspiring champions have access to a whip that prevents enemies from denying challenges. Other weapons are the same.

Most named characters are the same, but overall a point reduction. Abbadon is the same points and does not make terminators troops.

Abadon is AP2, Daemon Weapons are AP3

There are no new named characters.

Thousand Sons come with an Aspiring Sorcerer in their basic 5 before adding more Rubric marines.

The only impact on Marks is that HQ models make corresponding cult units Troops.

There are 2 debuff spells in Nurgle and Slaanesh, 2 buff spells in Slaanesh.

The "eye of the Gods" table is actually several tables. First you roll to see what table you roll on, then you roll what you get after winning a challenge, killing a monstrous creature or walker, or annihilating a unit in close combat.

One of the tables is Daemonic Gifts.

Possessed get to buy (not roll) up to 3 boons from the table.

Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-)

They can take special weapons, but not heavy weapons.

they respond very well to dark apostles getting an extra benefit when one is in their unit.

Skull Champions can take collars that give the squad and any vehicle it's embarked in a 5+ DtW

You can mix/match Marks and Icons.

+1T/FnP isn't as good as a Plague Marine, they're worth their points.

HQ unlocks corresponding cult troop.

Kharne strikes at initiative 5, and he gained armour bane which I guess is new. He's AP3, but for every model he kills (not wound inflicted) he makes an additional attack at initiative 1.

Not quite the same as warrior born as it doesn't keep growing, but it's very devastating for someone with 8 attacks on the charge.

khorne berserkers are AP5

There are no new fortifications but there is a unique upgrade to fortifications.

Havocs, CSM and chosen squads can take autocannons

They're (Defilers) the same except they have the Daemon special rule, 4 hull points and a 5+ invulnerable save.

There is a sonic upgrade for tanks, but it's not a noise-marine thing.

I don't know about upgrades being finecast. I know that there is intent to upgrade the basic CSM box to support all the cult troops to be able to achieve any of the weapon combinations from the entries (including everyone having soundblasters).

Raptors still have access to special weapons, only the aspiring champion can take special melee weapons. They are reduced in points.

The Night Lord's raptors are a lot like vanguard (they cannot charge on deep strike though), but they have 2 attacks base + dual power weapons (ap3) with the shred special rule and are 35 points each.

no chaos razorbacks, just combi-weapons

150 points for 4 Rubric marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer.

Unit size 4-19. 20 points per Rubric. Still slow and purposeful, unless the sorcerer is alive then relentless.

Having not had an extensive amount of time with the rules, from what I have read so far, there seems to be a theme of if you want it, you can have it, but you have to pay.

Basic CSM squads actually end up cheaper than a tactical squad if they take only 2 special weapons and their aspiring champion has bp/ccw.

It's possible, however, to clear 400 points on a 10 man squad with a transport.

There does seem to be a ton of possible army lists that can be built out of it though, and that's really exciting, but at the end of the day they're just marines and nothing has jumped off the page as 'wtf...OP' (yet)

Melee obliterators - str5/t5, 2+/5++, Once per turn can combination of 2: power weapon, power fist, lightning claw

Marks are the same.

Undivided Lords get Inspiring Presence command trait, and improved reserve manipulation.

Dedicated transports get the mark of the unit they're bought for, for free. Only units with the same mark can ride in it, (so be careful).

Undivided vehicles can transport anyone.

Other vehicles may buy them. An example would be the mark of khorne on a predator, which gives it a dozer blade at no additional cost, and allows it to roll d6 wounds on a unit it tank shocks

Psychic powers are rolled.

Rubric marines are 1W, 4++

There are no CSM squads that can combat squad.

No drop pods :/

Nothing specifically, but there are war smiths who can restore hull points

Daemonicly possessed vindicators I think will be in every list, with their ability to potentially regenerate destroyed weapons at start of the chaos player's turn.

What are the rules for the new flyer?

Specifically:

-any ranged weaponry? It has a ranged attack

-armour values and hull points? 12/11/10

-base points cost? 170

-fast attack ur heavy support? Fast attack

Maulers are elites, Obliterators are heavy support. You can have both.

the new siege unit is heavy support.

Can dreds take marks and if so are they cool ?

Yes and yes. The mark of khorne for instance gives it Rage and a unique weapon option much-like blood talons except it's a giant rotary saw.

Plague Marines are 120 for 5, + 24 for more.

Poisoned only in melee. Can throw their blight grenades to reduce enemy movement speed to 2d6 pick the highest, or if already rolling d6 for whatever reason (i.e. cover, charging) pick the lowest.

Thousand Son squads are rank 1

HQ sorcerer are rank 1, can be upgraded to 2.

Mark of Tzeench on an HQ is +1 (so you can upgrade all the way to rank 3)

There is a piece of wargear that lets you reroll up to your mastery in dice after you have rolled, but only each dice once.

Berzerkers are 105+21/berzerker

5-20 in size.

There is a new land raider, it's a lot like a crusader.

already posted the dragon

1-3. Maulers cannot deep strike, but are not slow and purposeful.

Yes icons prevent scatter

70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.

Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.

Come with bolter/bp/ccw

For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.

Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

Kharne still hits friendly models.

Zombie cultists aren't scoring and cannot be joined by Characters (even with the mark of nurgle)

Ahriman is mastery 4, can cast multiple powers per turn, gets access to almost all lores and has a default psychic attack much like smite but longer range that he can use in addition to his normal psychic powers per turn.

The siege engine has a melta blast template.

Yes daemons can be summoned to your CSM icons if you have a dark apostle.

Undivided is a lot cheaper than cult marines. A lot. Playing undivided gives you many more bodies.

Marks are per squad. CSM/Havocs/Raptors/Chosen pay the same cost. Termies pay more.

No traitor guard. Just cultists.

No one comes with icons by default, cult troops get marks by default.

Marks are the same, except Khorne which is Rage, not +1 attack and has a point decrease.

Q : How many troops can our land raiders carry? Any variants or new special abilities/upgrades that are noteworthy?

A : 12 for the basic, 16 for the new one. New one can ram fortifications and you can launch an assault on the occupants, except that you don't consolidate at the end, you remain locked in combat. If the enemy unit flees they immediately exit the terrain. If the door is blocked (by your land raider for instance), they count as having been caught ala Sweeping Advance

Terminators pay 50% more. Taking an icon if you already have a mark costs an extra 20 points.

Daemon princes are jump if they have wings.

No way to get bikers as troops.

the flyer you get is retardedly good at blowing up things that are zooming.

cultists cannot platoon, but you can take up to 30 of them in the first place.

No new turret options for predators.

Bikes get nothing new, just CSM on bikes with combi-bolters instead of bolters.

You can get away with a mono-god list, but at that point you should be using cult troops most likely.

If you're adding havocs to your berzerker army, there's no real point in giving the havocs the mark of khorne for instance. In that sense you're varied.

It's not like 3.5 where we'll see thousand son troops with nurgle vehicles to min-max.

As of July 25th, CSM book is set to release in September along with the starter (though not the same week).

[Estienne]

Вот это

"There are no new fortifications but there is a unique upgrade to fortifications."

Это намёк на Железных воинов в кодексе? вроде чтото про фартификации у них было когда они были...

А вот это

"No drop pods :/"

В кодексе если даже не будет, то без разницы в книжках Форджа то есть.

О зашибись и Зомби и Культисты!

"Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-)

They can take special weapons, but not heavy weapons.

they respond very well to dark apostles getting an extra benefit when one is in their unit."

"Zombie cultists aren't scoring and cannot be joined by Characters (even with the mark of nurgle)"

Изменено 26 июля, 2012 пользователем Estienne

[Shurick]

круто, даже нидам дали поды, а хсм всё в обломе и пофиг что атм есть в фордже, в фордже у других аж по 2 пода. Хотя теже книги БЛ говорят обратное и что у хсм есть чуть ли не две трети разных штук которые есть у лоялистов. А в кодексе опять будет буй.

[Alter_mann]

дп с крыльями джамп инфентри-это даже не смешно

[ Добавлено спустя 27 секунд ]

Изменено 26 июля, 2012 пользователем Alter mann

[Sidri_cyberdog]

Наоборот, это хорошо. Чем сильнее будут хаоситы отличаться от обычных маров, тем лучше. А то как-то не хочется видеть "а вот мои мары сегодня не лоялисты, а хаоситы, в принципе ростер и цены те же, только у кэпа... сорри лорда демоншашка..."

И все возможности для этого я пока вижу.

[Shurick]

Наоборот, это хорошо. Чем сильнее будут хаоситы отличаться от обычных маров, тем лучше. А то как-то не хочется видеть "а вот мои мары сегодня не лоялисты, а хаоситы, в принципе ростер и цены те же, только у кэпа... сорри лорда демоншашка..."

И все возможности для этого я пока вижу.

А с чего они должны сильно отличаться? те же мары только рогатые. Вон орки сильно отличаются от маров, а хсм так и будут антиподом лоялистов, теже яйца только злые =)

Alter mann

Походу флаинг монстров нам не завезут, хочешь флаинг монстров купи демонов <_< это уже бесит. Нам когда нить вернут ДП который убер монстра а не жалкое чмо которое даже кеп с кувалдой и щитом уделает?

Верните нам ту зверюгу которая была до этого кодекса)

Изменено 26 июля, 2012 пользователем Shurick

[Юрий Игоревич]

Емнип, ДП, как только вышел кодекс был силён. Конечно, не ДП под сиреной из тройки, но тем не менее.

[Torgrim Ironbraker]

Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-) И побоку что сейв 6+)))

[ Добавлено спустя 11 минуту 29 секунд ]

А вот заинтересовали вот сии юниты Maulers - ктонить чтонить о ных знает... Что это за "Мучители"? Написано что они в Элите будут

[DenisV]

А вот заинтересовали вот сии юниты Maulers - ктонить чтонить о ных знает... Что это за "Мучители"? Написано что они в Элите будут

Вроде как хтх версия облитераторов.

[Keefer]

Наоборот, это хорошо. Чем сильнее будут хаоситы отличаться от обычных маров, тем лучше. А то как-то не хочется видеть "а вот мои мары сегодня не лоялисты, а хаоситы, в принципе ростер и цены те же, только у кэпа... сорри лорда демоншашка..."

И все возможности для этого я пока вижу.

В этом хаосмары от лоялистов как раз отличаться и не должны. Да они плохиши, но по прежнему мары и по прежнему один из основных способов прихода на боле боя это десантирование. Что, после Ереси они разом потеряли все свои дропподы? Это не разнообразие кодексов, это скорее кое-что другое...

Меня беспокоит, что у Демонического Оружия АР3. С учётом того, что оно по прежнему может подбросить своему владельцу свинью, это не очень хорошо. Надеюсь, что бонусы носителю оно также будет давать более чем неслабые, т.к. +2 S или D6 экстра атак или ещё что-то в таком роде вообще не стоят ничего, с учётом того, что термосов теперь везде будет много.

Холи щит, форум тормозит безбожно.

Изменено 26 июля, 2012 пользователем Keefer

[Estienne]

Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-) И побоку что сейв 6+)))

Так по сейв не сказали, так что считай 6+ может и покупаться)

Keefer да какбы не трестнет и плюшки и чтобы термосятскую броню ломало, какбы какраз сейчас хоть заставляют репу чесать и разнообразие проявлять.

Изменено 26 июля, 2012 пользователем Estienne

[Плюш]

Вообще при наличии таких разнообразных юнитов - и дешевых и дорогих совсем непонятно зачем нужны союзники.

[Keefer]

Keefer да какбы не трестнет и плюшки и чтобы термосятскую броню ломало, какбы какраз сейчас хоть заставляют репу чесать и разнообразие проявлять.

Повторюсь, это Демоническое оружие. Оно по прежнему может гадить носителю. Это минус, большой минус. И если оно при этом не пробивает термоармор, то плюсы у него должны быть существенные. В противном случае оно не нужно. Хотя, как показывает практика, Фила Келли иногда клинит, и он придумывает армори на 2/3 заполненное бесполезной ерундой (см. Arcane Wargear, Codex Dark Eldar)

[ Добавлено спустя 8 минут 48 секунд ]

Вообще при наличии таких разнообразных юнитов - и дешевых и дорогих совсем непонятно зачем нужны союзники.

Как зачем? Собирать Дез Гард под Эпидемием. Мне всегда нравился бек и миньки Гвардии Смерти.