Библиарии Космодесанта

[Дарт Йорикус]

Или статья про Никейский Собор врет.

Врет по черному. И Император отправил Русса карать Магнуса особо жестоким образом не столько за нарушение приказа, сколько за то, что Магнус ему защитные установки в Паутине Путей сжег, послав огромное количество трафика демоническим заклинанием.

[Mad_Rat]

Ну что тут скажешь(

Взаимоисключающие параграфы в чистом виде.

[Dr Darog]

Ну что тут скажешь(

Взаимоисключающие параграфы в чистом виде.

Или же все же запретили колдовство, а не легальное псайкерство, под методике Импи. Тогда все встает на свои места. По этому у Русса в легионе были легальные присты, а Магнусу дали по щам за колдовтсво. Чуть позже вывешу пару интерсных цитат из Коллетор виженс))

[Kotov]

Таки добавлю:

БТ до сих пор всех библиариев к колдунам причисляет.

И почему решили, что у Магнуса колдуны, а у всех остальных - псайкеры?

Магнус тогда еще богам Хаоса не поклонялся.

Изменено 30 августа, 2009 пользователем Kotov

[Dr Darog]

И почему решили, что у Магнуса колдуны, а у всех остальных - псайкеры?

Магнус тогда еще богам Хаоса не поклонялся.

Читай бек, фишка в том, что сынки как раз баловались колдовтсвом, причем сам Магнус еще до того, как узнал, кто его папа.

[Dr Darog]

Видимо все такие ленивые, что кроме меня это сделать некому.

Виженс:

On the planet of Nikaea the Emperor had summoned the War Council to resolve the Librarian crisis and for Magnus ro face charges of sorcery.

sorcery

сущ.магия, колдовство, волшебство; чары

The Emperor made his ruling. Beyond the exceptions of the Navigators and astropaths he was adamant that the Legions did not employ psykers. Even the hint of sorcery had become dangerous and unacceptable. He commanded that the Primarchs close their Librarius departments forthwith and ordered that the Primarchs themselves not indulge their undoubted psychic

Закрыть Либрарии - не значит распустить или запретить Библиариев.

After the Council of Nikaea, the Space Marine Legions had been instructed to abolish their Librarius divisions.

То есть сквады библиариев распустили. СКВАДЫ, а не самих библиариев.

The Emperor decreed that henceforth no Legion was to employ psykers in battle, nor were they to continue their studies into the mysteries of psychic talents. Those Legions who had Librarians - psychically empowered Marines - were instructed to reassign them to standard fighting units and to forbid the use of their abilities.

The Council of Nikaea had been the Trial of Magnus the Red. accused of sorcery and of introducing sorccrous practices to the Marine Legions through the institution of the Librarians.

Leman Russ regarded Magnus as sly and devious, Mortarion openly accused the Cyclops of dabbling in sorcery and Corax twice refused to field his Raven Guard Legion alongside the Thousand Sons.

SPACE MARINE LIBRARIANS

Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons Legion, was instrumental in the development of ihe Space Marine Librarian. Some of the Space Marine Primarchs had long wanted to exploit the powers of psychically talented Space Marines. In some Legions psychic mutation was relatively common and it was felt that there must be ways for such individuals to continue to be of use to their Legion without presenting any danger.

Magnus and a number of other Primarchs created a program of tra and development for psykers that supplemented the traditional proca creating a Space Marine, lite Emperor sanctioned these first rxpn-HH with psychic Space Marines as a means of controlling the spontancoun breaks of psychic mutation within the ranks of certain Legions Thrai Emperor had been asked ro approve of the recruitment of psykers inton of the other Legions. The Librarians had been loyal and effective wjrriotti the Emperor appeared to accept their presence on the field of battle.

The Librarians had become a powerful addition to the ranks of ihcSj Marine Legions.

THE LIBRARIAN CRISIS

As the Great Crusade progressed, most of ihe Space Marine Legions! established Librarius departments. The Librarians proved themselvesasi thy as any other Space Marines in battle after battle.

However, the Primarchs argued amongst themselves and witbl Emperor about the Librarians. Some desired to extend their Librariusdeji menrs and recruit even more pyskers whilst other Pnmarcbj vehemently against the entire notion of the Librarians. Leman Russiqj that the Librarians were simply warlocks by any other name. Corax and h Dorn refused to commit (heir Legions to battles alongside those fidl librarians. Mortarion accused Magnus the Red of sorcery.

The Emperor was planning to retreat to Earth and continue his greatt in the seclusion of his Palace vaults. Perhaps he was concerned about! Librarians and the dangers ihey would present when he was no longer^} ing alongside them. Certainly he was dismayed at the accusation Magnus. Before he departed for Earth he summoned the War Council toi sion on the planet of Nikaea.

</a>

ИА:

The growing number of psykers within the Imperium is seen by some as the next evolutionary step for Mankind. However, these are ihe very early, tentative stages, for such an advancement will take countless generations to fully evolve, and the powers of the psyker are not yet refined. Psychic ability is both the greatest boon to Mankind and its most dangerous threat. Without psykers, the entire system of interstellar communication and travel would cease to exist, consequently resulting in the fall of the Imperium. Lacking these powers, the Imperium would become nothing more than a series of scattered and isolated systems. Warp travel is only made possible for Humanity with the guiding light of the Astronomican, a psychic beam stretching 70,000 light years across space from its source on Terra The pure psychic energy needed for this great undertaking is created by the combined 'voice' of ten ihousand specially irained psykers, a ooul draining labour that exhausts their life force within months, leaving them little more than shrivelled husks. This 'voice' is focused and directed by the immortal Emperor, who projects the pure psychic energy into the galaxy. This beacon is vital to the specially trained and psychically attuned Navigators, who require it in order for them to have any possibility of steering a safe path through the turbulent and inconsistent non-reality of warp space.

Those of particular strength of mind, if discovered when young, may be nurtured so ihat their abilities can benefit Mankind in such ways. The psykers schooled by ihe Scholastica Psykana generally operate within a particular specialised area, whether it be as Astropaths, framed for interstellar communication within 'he Adeptus. Astra Telepathica or as Navigators within the Adeptus Astronomica. The Librarians of the Adeptus Astartes, however, fulfil a much more varied and combat oriented role, and as such they are chosen from amongst those of exceptional ability and skill.

Those with psychic ability draw their power from the turbulent realm of the warp, also known as the Ether, ihe Immaterium or the Empyrean, as recorded in the Scriptorum Arcanum. This alternate dimension is a twisted reflection of the known physical world, a horrific and constantly shifting domain that defies the accepted laws of the material universe, inhabited by malevolent and predatory astral creatures. When a psyker uses his power, he opens a gateway between the two realms, drawing energy from the warp into himself. If a psyker is unprepared or inexperienced he may inadvertently attract the attentions of daemons, drawing them to him like moths to a flame. According io the codices of ihe enigmatic, daemon-hunting Ordo Malleus, these warp-entities are capable of traversing the link the psyker has formed between ihe two dimensions, assaulting his mind, ripping the very soul I'rom his body and dragging it screaming to an existence of eternal torture within the warp. As such, the twisted realm of the warp is sometimes referred to as the Sea of Souls. A particularly powerful daemon may attempt to force its way into the physical realm by overwhelming the body of ihe hapless psyker, and from there endeavour to inflict as much psychic and physical suffering as possible on the material world.

Those with a limited degree of psychic ability, but who lack the strength of will to fully control it, are one of 5ie most dangerous forces threatening the Imperium, and ihey are hunted down without remorse by the Inquisition. Ac a matter of course, the number of minds considered dangerous far outweigh those that are embraced by the Imperium. Some of those condemned are transported to Terra aboard one of the Black Ships, where their sacrifice may benefit all of Mankind. It is said that their life-force is fed io the insatiable needs ol the undying Emperor in order to sustain him, enabling his glorious light to remain indefinitely within the physical realm. Indeed, to be born with psychic ability is a terrible curse, and many attempt to hide their powers from detection. Without the correct training, a psyker teeters on the brink of eternal damnation. Entire planetary systems have been brought under daemonic dominion, creating hellish worlds of tortured slaves, due to a single psyker lacking the mental discipline to not use his gifts.

Spes<8 fti&rtas U'brartans______

Space Marine Librarians are amongst the most potent of all of Mankind's psykers, highly talented and trained to the highest levels. A highly trained Librarian can manipulate the energy of the warp in extraordinary ways, and with spectacular effect.

Librarians train their minds and bodies constantly to reinforce their willpower, for the danger involved is great. While the Chapter Apothecaries test the physical gene-structure of potential Space Marines, the Librarians are responsible for testing their psychic ability and willpower. They do this to seek out and nurture those who show talent, but more importantly to weed out those who possess some ability whose untrained minds would endanger the entire Chapter.

Those initiates displaying the required psychic ialent and willpower are inducted into the Librarium. where they commence their intensive years of study and development in conjunction with the strict training of their brother Space Marines. These initiates are recruited from a variety of sources, depending on the means and position of the Space Marine home world or Chapter-Fortress. Some Chapters recruit their Librarians solely from amongst those chosen as potential Space Marines, while other Chapters select their number from amongst the most talented and disciplined of young Primaris Psykers of the Scholastica Psykana.

The need for vigilance is never treated lightly, and Ihe Librarians of every Chapter routinely engage the minds of its Space Marines in order to ensure their purity. They are mencuious in meir record Keeping, chronicling any discovered deviancy for future reference. Space Marines exposed to particular psychic strain and trauma, such as through contact with alien horrors or the warping influence of Chaos, must undergo a series of strict screening and cleansing rituals conducted by the Librarians in order to confirm the integrity of the precious gene-seed. For the Space Marines, gene-seed is the Chapter's life-blood, the most invaluable of possessions, and must be kept pure at all costs. Any trace of perversion or corruption within ihe gene-seed must be eradicated utterly il the Chapter is to survive.

The Librarium of the Chapter is typically an ancient and immense structure, housing the collective knowledge that the Chapter has acquired over the millennia. Scribes work ceaselessly within its walls, labouring to duplicate the older texts as ihey are gradually destroyed by time. The Librarians of the Chapter are charged with the upkeep of the Librarium, and it is iheir responsibility to maintain its integrity. Only ihey know the full wonders and horrors that are contained within the ancient vellum pages, deeds both heroic and heinous. Thousand year-old tomes, bound in cracked and faded leather, sit side by side with newer works in an immense and ever expanding collection. Indeed, the Librarium is often enlarged as time passes in order for it to be able to house the perpetually increasing number of volumes held within. Imperial envoys tell fantastical stories of the rare and ancient arcane technologies that reside within a Librarium's hallowed walls, great humming data repositories that store unfathomable amounts of information. The Librarium will often include an archaic catalogue containing countless data crystals, each crystal holding a lifetime of accumulated wisdom. Many Librariums contain a smaller inner Librarius, where the most dangerous and heretical texts are kept. This area is accessible to only a select few of the Chapter's Chief Librarians, as befits the dangerous and blasphemous nature of the texts. Merely glancing at ihe twisted pages of these dangerous volumes would send most men spiralling deep into insanity, and they can only be viewed under ihe most controlled conditions and with careful preparations of the mind.

The various official ranks within the Librarians' order serve to describe the particular functions that they perform within the Chapter and within the Librarium itself. The lowest of the battlefield ranks is the Lexicanium, whose job it is to act as record keepers, creating the initial reports that are to be added to the Librarium These summary accounts chronicle ihe history of the Chapter, varying in nature from campaign and battle details to the beliefs and philosophies of ihe Chapter. The next rank of Librarian is that of Codicier, awarded to the older, more experienced Space Marines who critically evaluate the reports of ihe Lexicaniums, finalising their form for inclusion in the Librarium. The Epistolary stands a level higher still, and is one of those typically turned io when the need arises for psychic communication. This power can be used to project the mind of the Librarian across warp space itself if necessary. This is a similar ability to that used by the Astropaths of the Adepius Astra Telepathica, who are relatively common throughout the Imperium. However, such is the strength of will of the Librarians that they have no need to undertake the tortuous ritual of Soul Binding that the Astropaths must endure. More commonly, the Epistolary Is used io communicate over shorter distances, coordinating attacks and relaying battle orders.

The Chief Librarians are the highest ranking members of their order, and their mastery and control of the mystic arts is awesome to behold. The Chapter and its commanders rely heavily on the council of these most powerful of psykers and, acting within their role as advisors, the Librarians have countless centuries of experience at their disposal. Through a combination of wisdom and considerable psychic powers of premonition, the advice of the Chief Librarians is greatly respected within the Chapter. On ^ the battlefield, however, is where

their abilities truly come to

the fore, as their overwhelming psychic powers devastate the armies and defences of their enemies, rending them apart with pure force of will.

The tactical worth of the Librarians is tremendous. The psychic Shockwave and turbulence that is created as a ship moves in and out of warp space can be felt by them, and so ihe actions of an enemy can be effectively anticipated and countered. They are the equal in battlefield prowess of any other Space Marine, and the devastating psychic powers thai they wield will often tip the balance in the Chapter's favour in a close fought conflict. The psychic abilities of the Librarians are utilised in various forms on the battlefield. Most directly, ihe Librarian can channel the power of the warp through his body, striking at the enemy with devastating blasts of concentrated energy. With their powers of prescience, they can sense and predict the movements of Ihe enemy, providing a distinct tactical advantage. Messages and communications can be relayed using the Librarian's considerable psychic powers, and these types of communications have 'he advantage over more physical forms, such as po^m-links, of being completely " detectable to all but the most powerful of psykers.

There is a myriad array of equipment that the Librarians of the Adeptus Astartes make use of to amplify and focus their already considerable psychic powers. The variety of these arcane items is so great that ii makes a general classification of them impossible, and their use varies amongst the different Chapters, as well as being dependent on the personal preferences of individual Librarians. Some favour ihe use of the Emperor's Tarot in predicting the twisting paths of the future, a tool used for divination throughout the Imperium. The psychic hood is an intricately designed helmet, fitted with an array of psychically conductive wires and crystals, which is often used by a Chapter's Librarians. This helmet serves to amplify the psyker's abilities, enabling him io disrupt the flow and manipulation of the warp by others. As such, it is an effective counter io the psychic abilities of rogue and alien psykers. Ritually purified force weapons are utilised by the majority of Librarians. They come in a variety of forms, most generally appearing as swords and axes. Psychically attuned to ihe mind of its wielder, the force weapon is a potent armament that the psyker uses as a conduit through which his power is channelled. Coiling psychic energy flows around the crystalline matrices etched into the weapon, released on impact in an explosive display of power. The weapons have a colossal force when utilised against creatures of the warp, which are particularly vulnerable io attacks made with the same form of energy that makes up their own warp-spawned forms.

THE RUNE PRIESTS OF THE SPACE WOLVES

The Rune Priests of the Spec Wolves are one notable exception to the doctrines of the Codex Aslartcs. i comment tlut can be applied to the entire Chapter. [Other particularly noteworthy exceptions include the Librarians of the Crimson Shades, the White Scars and the Novamarincs] While the role that Rune Priests play within the Chapter is not so different from the traditional Codex role, it is in the methods they employ where they differ significantly. They act as record keepers, much like Codex Librarians, though they memorise their histories in great sagas rather than in written form. They act as advisors to the Crcat Wolf as well, counselling him in times of war. The particular psychic powers and practises they employ, however, are based on those of the traditional shamans of their home world. Fcnris. and as such arc very different to the Codex form. Young skalds arc taught the complex and arcane lore of their people by the older Rune Priests, their methods having remained unchanged for countless centuries. The Rune Priests arc independent and ferocious warriors, wise and deliberate in their methods and rituals. They cast runes to predict the ebb and flow of events to come, the runes often carved from the bones or teeth of one of the various totem animals of the Fcnrisians. The teeth of the great wolves that prowl the icy world arc noted particularly for their power.

The Rune Priest holds a different attitude towards psychic powers than that of the other Codex Space Marine Chapters. Where typical Codex Librarians hold to the belief that their power is a manipulation of the pure essence of the warp, the Rune Priest believes that his power comes from the living energy of Fcnris. as well as from within. The innate power of Fcnris can be channelled into his totems by the Rune Priest, so that he may always carry this power with him wherever he may be within the galaxy.

Изменено 30 августа, 2009 пользователем Darog

[samurai_klim]

В поддержку уважаемого мною Darogа (хотя иногда он перегибает палку) скажу, что Магнус пробился к Императору посредством жертвоприношений, убив несколько сотен (сорри не помню) тысяч человек. Это ли не колдовство?

Цитаты:

1. Те силы, которые невозможно было четко объяснить, отвергались и считались нечистыми, и так повелось со времен Никейского Совета.

Магнус в бешенстве отшвырнул свой кубок, вспомнив, как униженно склонялся к ногам Императора, когда его вынудили отречься от всех познаний в магии из опасения перед результатами исследований.

2. Император проповедовал доктрину научного знания и логики, но это было лишь красивой ложью, занавеской, призванной скрыть от человечества истину.

3. Прикажи собрать рабов на пересечении тоннелей, ... каждую секунду, что я провожу здесь, дюжина рабов умирает, чтобы оставить переход открытым.

И по поводу того что Руссу приказали завалить сразу Магнуса:

– Успокойся, Мал, – улыбнулся Хорус. – Я уже связался со своим братом Руссом и просветил его насчет вероломного применения Магнусом демонических заклинаний и заговоров. Он… здорово разозлился, и мне кажется, что я убедил его не тратить попусту силы и время на возвращение Магнуса на Терру.

То бишь добрый Гор попросту натравил Волчару на Одноглазого

[OldWorld]

То бишь добрый Гор попросту натравил Волчару на Одноглазого

Конечно натравил, кто же спорит)

Для Волка появился повод подраться - он подрался.

Единственное что - загвоздка насчёт того, что мол, Космодесантник не может убить Космодесантника - все помним этот момент и Хоруса с его солдатами при встерче людей в паверарморе? Уже тяжко было...

Очевидно, на Волков это не действовало и они сразу же при высадке принялись убивать

Изменено 30 августа, 2009 пользователем Особый Моргульский назгул

[Kotov]

Дарог, а вот за это - большое спасибо!

Написано:

...he was adamant that the Legions did not employ psykers....

....The Emperor decreed that henceforth no Legion was to employ psykers in battle, nor were they to continue their studies into the mysteries of psychic talents. Those Legions who had Librarians - psychically empowered Marines - were instructed to reassign them to standard fighting units and to forbid the use of their abilities....

Легионам запрещается брать псайкеров на работу.

Прекратить их обучение и отправить в боевые подразделения сражаться как обычные марины.

И запретить использовать колдовство.

Причем для Легионов (who had Librarians - psychically empowered Marines ) у которых они были. Можно предположить, что у Гвардии Смерти (Мортарион), Гвардии Ворона (Коракс) и Кулаков (Дорн), которые особо рьяно наезжали на Магнуса, библиариев не было.

С Волками не все так однозначно.

Вообще странно, что Русс обвинял псайкеров в колдовстве имея фенрисийских шаманов в своем Легионе.

Leman Russiqj that the Librarians were simply warlocks by any other name.

Либо Рунных Жрецов стали "брать на работу" уже после Ереси, что опровергается выложенным ранее артом. Хм...

Изменено 31 августа, 2009 пользователем Kotov

[Dr Darog]

А рунные жрецы не колдовали и у них особая магия ;) особая волчья магия))) Поэтому они под запрет и не попали, к тому же они и сражаться могут как обычные волки.

Вот так вот Русс начитерил всех - впрочем, как всегда)) =)

[0.5 Кота]

особая волчья магия)

Может они не людей в жертву приносили, а там корешки на горных вершинах собирали или по грибы в лес ходили. Настойки всякие ягодные на спирту, заварочки и пр. После них и просыпалась магическая сила)))

[Dr Darog]

Может они не людей в жертву приносили, а там корешки на горных вершинах собирали или по грибы в лес ходили. Настойки всякие ягодные на спирту, заварочки и пр. После них и просыпалась магическая сила)))

Вот зачем писать это :oops: ? Когда уже всю возможную инфу по волкам запостили тут и в других темах? Вам так нравится придумывать то, чего нет и не может быть?

[Mad_Rat]

Кстати, про жертвы - хорошо показывает, какой Магнус был "няшка".

Вроде, все здорово, то он Гора в коме тряс, то на Терру предупреждение посылал, но как-то все...печально для многих обходилось.

И зачем приносить жертвы, если не для призывания сил Тёмных Богов?

Библы как-то этим не занимаются. Ни разу не слышал.

Изменено 31 августа, 2009 пользователем Mad_Rat

[Iron Cage]

Кстати, про жертвы - хорошо показывает, какой Магнус был "няшка".

...

И зачем приносить жертвы, если не для призывания сил Тёмных Богов?

Импи по неск. тысяч псайкеров в день в жертву приносят - он тоже "няшка"?

Это ваха - надо, значит надо, на цену особо никто не смотрит.

[Свинота безграмотная]

Импи по неск. тысяч псайкеров в день в жертву приносят - он тоже "няшка"?

Это ваха - надо, значит надо, на цену особо никто не смотрит.

Не путайте теплое с мягким. =) Сороковник значительно суровее тридцатника. Да и сопутствующие обстоятельства весьма и весьма отличаются одно от другого.

[Iron Cage]

Не путайте теплое с мягким. =) Сороковник значительно суровее тридцатника. Да и сопутствующие обстоятельства весьма и весьма отличаются одно от другого.

Я не путаю, человеческая жизнь есть человеческая жизнь.

И чем это 40к суровее? А войны объеденения? А ВКП с его приведениями к согласию, геноцидом ксеносов, мутантов, релегиозных деятелей и т.п? А маров как обслуживают и создают, откуда все эти замечательные органы для пересадки берутся и т.д? Да и псайков Импи отнюдь не в М41 приносить стали. Так что ничем 30К не уступает в плане суровости.

Равно как и обстоятельства одни и те же - пожертвовать немногими жизнями для спасения многих.

[Shikiller]

Вопросик.

А можно ссылку на источник, где написано, что на Магнуса катили бочку Коракс и Дорн?

Я пока нашел достоверные ссылки только на Мортариона и Русса.

[Kotov]

Внимательно перечитываем тему и пост Дарога.

Leman Russiqj that the Librarians were simply warlocks by any other name. Corax and h Dorn refused to commit (heir Legions to battles alongside those fidl librarians. Mortarion accused Magnus the Red of sorcery.

Лексиканум

The early history of the Librarians is chequered with mistrust and intrigue. The Librarian training schemes were created by Magnus the Red, a powerful psyker in his own right, along with some of the other Primarchs, although the rest were completely against using psykers in the Space Marine legions, most notably Leman Russ, Corax, Rogal Dorn and Mortarion.

[Shikiller]

А на лексикануме инфа откуда?

Их кодекса какого или других ГВ-шных материалов? Извиняюсь, но т.к. РГ мой любимый легион, я хочу докопаться до корня. То есть - безусловно официального источника. А то как-то странно, что РГ нарушили принципы своего Примарха и завели библюков. У саксессоров Имперских Кулаков хотя бы исторически прослеживаются конфликты с результатом в виде отказавшихся от библюков БТ.

[Kotov]

Я вот тоже самое хотел узнать, когда тему создавал...

Изменено 1 сентября, 2009 пользователем Kotov

[Dr Darog]

А на лексикануме инфа откуда?

Их кодекса какого или других ГВ-шных материалов? Извиняюсь, но т.к. РГ мой любимый легион, я хочу докопаться до корня. То есть - безусловно официального источника. А то как-то странно, что РГ нарушили принципы своего Примарха и завели библюков. У саксессоров Имперских Кулаков хотя бы исторически прослеживаются конфликты с результатом в виде отказавшихся от библюков БТ.

Советую еще раз перечитать мой пост. Примархи не одобряли колдовство. Псайкеров многие же, наоборот, очень ценили и не хотели от них полностью отказываться. Читайте внимательно. Так что никто ничего не нарушал.

[Shikiller]

Я имел в виду не это, а конкретные утверждения, что у РГ и ИК библюков не было и они вообще их не любили. Ведь есть пост, где с ссылкой на Лекиканум утверждается, что Коракс и Дорн обвиняли Магнуса. А я вот подтвердждения что-то нигде не нахожу, потому и просил ссылочку на надежный источник. Вот про Мортариона и Русса - да, было. Но только про них.

[HeHaBucTb]

Это из Horus Heresy Collected Visions, 2007 года. На форуме перевод есть.

Изменено 1 сентября, 2009 пользователем Неуловимый Джо

[Alfаrius]

Я имел в виду не это, а конкретные утверждения, что у РГ и ИК библюков не было и они вообще их не любили. Ведь есть пост, где с ссылкой на Лекиканум утверждается, что Коракс и Дорн обвиняли Магнуса. А я вот подтвердждения что-то нигде не нахожу, потому и просил ссылочку на надежный источник. Вот про Мортариона и Русса - да, было. Но только про них.

Где найти подтверждение не помню (5 пар в первый день и 3 часа пути туда-обратно сделали своё дело) но это было. Причём Коракс, русс и Мортарион гнали на Магнуса из-за колдовства, а не псайкеров. Иначе, им бы и на Русса наезжать пришлось.

Изменено 1 сентября, 2009 пользователем Пречёрный Ситх

[Dr Darog]

Иначе, им бы и на Русса наезжать пришлось.

Им бы самим на себя пришлось наезжать)))