[Основные вопросы и обсуждения] 9th Age

[Mr Carloff]

Кто еще помнит Троелса ?

I voted on every poll. I was hoping they'd nerf EoS and DH to the ground. I'm sad that isn't the case.

Actually I probably voted against gunlines in HBE, OK and O&G too.

Shooting is just a really badly constructed phase.

Magic, cc and movement/deployment has counters. Shooting is just removing your wellpainted models from the table and crying.

[Faceless]

Кто еще помнит Троелса ?

За кого этот чувак топит?

[Mr Carloff]

За кого этот чувак топит?

За Данию.

[Faceless]

За Данию.

Я про армию. Надо быть последним морталом, чтобы так ныть за нерф стрельбы.

[Юрий Игоревич]

Ну так то он не прав. Ковер и арки для кого придумали?

[Mr Carloff]

"Вышли частичные базы для АБ 2.2с"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOreeUCEmOQ

В наличии, Воки, Бреты, Козлы, Империя, Орки, остальных оперативно добавляют.

Ссылка на тему и пост с базой.

[Mr Carloff]

Вот вышла оформленная книга по магии. Да, красиво, да оформлено, да флафф. Но смысл в ОТДЕЛЬНОЙ книге магии, если она отсылает к РУЛЕБУКУ за уточнением ТИПА заклинаний?

Вот что это? Скудоумие или многоходовочка(типа в брб всегда может поменяться описание типа закла?).

[Lord Velard]

Вот вышла оформленная книга по магии. Да, красиво, да оформлено, да флафф. Но смысл в ОТДЕЛЬНОЙ книге магии, если она отсылает к РУЛЕБУКУ за уточнением ТИПА заклинаний?

Вот что это? Скудоумие или многоходовочка(типа в брб всегда может поменяться описание типа закла?).

Многоходовочка в стиле что всегда можно поменять магию, не меняя БРБ. ну и нравиться людям отдельная книга по путям магии, в чем дело то В)

[Mr Carloff]

"Отыграл 4 игры."

Ok!

Ive had 4 games now with the 1.2 rules. So im here to give updated opinions.

The new standard balancing point being 4500.

You might want to have asked the TOs about this before you made this move...because all the TOs in my area and the people Ive all talked to heard the new standard was 4500...thought about it for exactly one minute...and said 'Nah, we'll stay with 5000.' This creates an issue! Namely that some of the percentages designed to limit certain choices now no longer limit said choices. Let me direct your attention to my 'This system is broke' 3 EDC WotDG list. 3 EDCs + 2 killy characters on demon steeds. Now that a lot of artillery can no longer deal well with monsters (looking at you, catapults)...well...

This isnt just your fault, but you shouldve been aware of the feelings of the community better. People dont wanna play with less toys even if the games go faster (they dont, btw...my 4500 point game took just as long as the 5000's). Once rules are known, what makes a game go fast or slow is if the people you play are fast players or slow players. And you cant change that by dropping down points.

Of course people want to play at 5000. They like to have their toys.

So now we have a situation where the balance is off, right away, immediately. Yes this is only a phase, but people form opinions during this MONTHS LONG phase and once you lose someone, its hard to get them back.

Magic

Ok. Some good news here. Not as useless as I thought it would be (Thanks @nicreap for demonstrating lol). But still way too swingy. The UD list had the benefit of not being real swingy because they have a stable magic flux due to Soul Conduit...AND the fact a lot of the spells were bound spells (so no miscast lol u die).

The 10 paths as opposed to 20 are ok. I honestly dont even notice.

Spells themselves still seem meh for the most part.

Some paths are WAY WAY better than others. Compare Cosmology with Evocation, for example. Cosmology is just better IN EVERY SINGLE WAY. Shamanism and Occultism? Why would I ever pick Occultism? But I guess these may just be personal preference, since Ive not played every single lore against all armies yet.

I know you are going to fix magic flux some day. Fix it sooner lol.

Balance between armies

A bit too early to meaningfully comment on this guys. My gut tells me though that some armies are going to be in a way better place than others. I think WotDG and UD are in a much better place than say Empire and Orcs and Goblins.

Army Internal Balance

I can only speak for my two main armies, WotDG and UD. But the internal balance in these armies is WAY WAY off. Some choices are simply Must Haves, and some you just wont ever touch. EDC is going to be chosen EVERY TIME over any other monster. Fallen in core (or barbs if you need a brick) are just way better than warriors in core. I doubt you'll see a Demon Prince ever in competitive play (unless its someone who is handicapping themselves). On the UD side you got two choices: Shabti-star or Necro-Star. Also, its either ALL IN on magic or 'Just bound spells thanks'.

We need a better system to balance units. Speaking of balancing systems...

9th Age General Balancing Modus Operandi

As far as I can tell, you guys have some general rules in how you do things. "Nerf not Buff" and are generally geared toward Symmetrical Balancing.

These both are huge mistakes at this point in the game.

Originally yes, you needed to tone down the power level. Take it from a 10 to a 2. I get that. I understand that. I agree with that. But now its time to turn things up again. A new release is like christmas. Everyone gets excited, imagining all the new toys they will get, how everything in their army will be shiny and new...all the new builds this redesign will open up. And then they open their present and its socks.

Cmon guys. People want to be excited about their army. So give them reasons to be excited! Just imagine all the positivity if everyones underused units got buffed in meaningful and different ways (more on asymmetrical balance in a second). Id love to field my Vortex fiend one day, and if 1.2 had made him AWESOME! I would have been so excited.

Thats not to say you cant or shouldnt nerf. If its needed its needed. But use buffs more! We are at a 2. Lets go to a 6.

Now...symmetrical balancing. This is generally referred to (wrongly, imho) as streamlining. It leads to Rock/Paper/Shotgun balance, even if you dont intend to. Everyone starts to look the same. With your removal of options or baking in options to units, you are trying to create symmetry inside of an army. Now everyones Battlesphinx will have breath and better armor. All those pegasus knights will have Devastating charge. Lords mounted on a chariot ALL have barding.

In addition, with the percentages, you are ALSO going to see a symmetry between armies. 2-3 infantry blocks, 1-3 monsters, 1-3 characters, some calvary, some chaff, sprinkle to taste.

It becomes bland. We need to move away from this. We need to go for Asymmetry amongst armies. And within armies. If I wanna take a barebones Warsphinx, I should be able to! It lets me FEEL different. And this game is all about playing YOUR army.

I wanna play MY army. Not a UD army. I wanna play the Entombed Army of Pharaoh Mar-Ket, with his Elite Guard and pet Warshphinxes. Do you guys understand this? Your choices in design are having a direct effect on me feeling that my army is my own.

"Да-да, я в курсе."

9 Age. НЕ НРАВИТСЯ - НЕ ИГРАЙ!

[flam]

Очень интересное мнение о версии 1.2

[Aver]

Парень отлично описал примерно то, о чем тут говорили страниц эн как.

Посмотрим, услышат ли.

[Чёрный Ёж с Юггота]

А там вообще дискуссия не слишком отличается от местной. Лексика разве что помягче.

[flam]

Вот вышла оформленная книга по магии. Да, красиво, да оформлено, да флафф. Но смысл в ОТДЕЛЬНОЙ книге магии, если она отсылает к РУЛЕБУКУ за уточнением ТИПА заклинаний?

Вот что это? Скудоумие или многоходовочка(типа в брб всегда может поменяться описание типа закла?).

Утром в газете, вечером в куплете:

But, I don't get on thing. What is the point of separate magic book if it's point you to check the BRB about type of spells? It need to be separated this way or it need to be all in one?

Good remark. Lemme see if I can find the space for that. I'm aiming to release the update on Friday 4th.

[Mr Carloff]

Ага. Видел.

[Юрий Игоревич]

Что-то я не очень понял возмущений игрока за ТК выше. У него какие-то взаимоисключающие параграфы проскакивают.

[Wonderman]

Ещё 4го будет релиз? Хмм. Базы бы сделали.

Весь вайн товарища сводится к тому, чтобы играть своим любимым фараоном (кактамбишьего) с его интернал гвардианз и гнуть все на 3+? Или май инглиш из бэд?

[Pax]

У него какие-то взаимоисключающие параграфы проскакивают.

Это бывает, если горит не по-детски....

[flam]

Основные новые претензии:

- не очевидные резоны перехода на 4500 (вместо 5000)

- не нужная дупликация цен

- сложный фок, в котором все будут путаться

И старые вечные:

- фиговая коммуникация между коммунити и РТ

- игнорирование идей коммунити

- игра катится куда-то не туда (подставь свое)

[Guu]

Ты просто не на его волне. Кроме откровенной лажи по поводу "эта мастхев, эта атстой, я большой иксперт-тиоретик", там есть еще мысль о том, что нерфить плохо с маркетинговой т.з., а еще в ЕГО армии у ЕГО сфинкса не было дыхалки, а теперь её вшили, и это больше не ЕГО армия.

Лично я ничего из этого не понял. Но кто-то наверняка услышит близкие его сердцу мысли.

Edit: ой, это Косте отвечал. Понабежали тут...

Изменено 31 октября, 2016 пользователем Guu

[Pax]

Лично я ничего из этого не понял. Но кто-то наверняка услышит близкие его сердцу мысли.

[DarthM]

Ну вшитая дыхалка - это не так плохо. Там цену не стали менять. А вот то что есть вещи, с которыми походу не вполне знают, что делать - уже практически факт

[flam]

"отыграл пару игр по 1.2 ОМГ ВСЯ ПРАВДА О 9ке ЖМИ СКОРЕЙ"

Hi,
liked to share my opinion about 1.2. after some games. I play OK and EoS and I don't know about most changes in other army books.

Pro:
I love the new army organization for my OK. In my group we don't play 9th Age as competitevely as most people on the forum seem to do and the new system really stops many one-sided lists. Same with EoS, more limits yes, but I like it, because the lists can't be that one-sided.
Many rules were simplified. Rulebook feels more like reading how the game works instead of telling me how 10 unlikely scenarios will play out. All war machines on one page is great. Like the Area Effect rule. Like everything about the new war machines.
We never played with the old building rules, new ones are a good step, maybe a bit too simple.
Some armies seem to have gotten balance changes they dont like and are very vocal about it. You guys did a great job on those army books I know. I feel like my armies received primarily small and good adjustments.
Like the smaller size. Doesnt have big impact on time but it might help anyways. And I spend more time considering which troops I really want to have and which ones could be cut.
The changes in Magic Items are really good improvements (Points Costs, Hardened Shield, Wizard Hood, no more +1Ld-Standard, ...).
You guys did a great job on those army books I know.
Con:
Writing a list is more work than before. I use pen and paper in 1.1. and in 1.2., but now I'm constantly recalculating into old point costs. Another problem: Being allowed to spent e.g. 35% of 4500 which is 1575 is really not handy. Maybe ok for tournaments, not good for just playing with friends.
I'd like to see some Magic Items added since several were cut and some army books dont have enough good own options #personalopinion
Sylvan Elves Forest Prince without natural Ld 10 feels very wrong to me.
Neutral:
I liked the old magic, I like the new magic.


Some room for improvements, but overall very good work, keep it up :)

[Mr Carloff]

Этот отзыв удаляют со всех сайтов! Достаточно лишь один раз день...

[Mr Carloff]

Для тех, кто интересуется отзывами о Херфорде....

ссылка

Изменено 15 ноября, 2016 пользователем Mr Carloff

[Rai]

Мне интересно, как скоро Гугуне (разумеется, не как у нас по варварски, а в культурной европейской манере) начнут объяснять, что вот это вот нытье про креативные модели и особый временной режим уважаемых людей здесь совершенно не нужно, и вообще главная проблема турнира-малое кол-во диетической колы.